Liverpool seems to be in danger of becoming less gay and less of a hub for the gay community as 2 ga

Both the Masquerade bar and Jupiters bar in the city centre have shut.Quite dramatically reducing the choice and options of venues for the close knit community and scene in Liverpool .

Liverpool is one of the major cities and population hubs that had a decent sized scene outside London. What's happening in Liverpool? This is a bit of a worry on top of Liverpool's oldest gay venue The Curzon closing in 2017. Makes our scene really feel worryingly fragile. ☹😮

Also the nationally famous Garlands club closed a few months ago.

Garland's the biggest club on the gay scene in Liverpool.

I just hope the scene in Liverpool in 2020 will flourish, prosper and survive as there is no sign of any new venues opening up.

I'm surprised there don't seem to be any chatty scouse queens on here with opinions to share!

The number of gay bars is shrinking everywhere as younger gay guys are less likely to go to gay bars compared to gays of the past where it was the only place you felt safe.

So sad. Seems even worse in UK than in US. I thought you guys drank much more than we did - and even you can’t keep gay bars open,

Liverpool is a drinking city traditionally r5 that's another reason why the closure of 3 venues in about 7 months is a shock to me.

R4 my fear is in some areas of the country we will reach a tipping point and no gay venues will be viable and the scene locally will cease to exist.

The bars will close even faster once the UK legalize weed.

R8 When do you think that will happen?

You should open a gay bar focused on the interest of millennials, something called "life is a buffet" or "STDs for everyone!"

young gay guys are creating the scene they want. It may not resemble anything you can identify as a scene, old people.

Brits throw out the Europeans in Brexit and are left with the Muslims the EU had nothing to do with in the first place. It all seems so very silly. BTW, I'm most certainly not a right winger crying about Muslims but there's no denying that the Muslim fundamentalist gangs have chased gay men on the streets in the UK. I should point out that I used to live in Turkey for a while and met many extremely nice moderate Muslims. It's the fundamentalists we all should we worried about.

R14 Have you posted on the wrong thread accidentally as I dont think the Muslim factor is a big part of the explanation as to why gay bars are closing especially in Liverpool?

In the UK it’s definitely the Muslim influence. In the US, it’s the trans that have completely obliterated the gay, lesbian, and bisexual scene.

Imagine how much your mind has been Nazified that you think Muslims have fuck all to do with guys going to the bars less.

Do the world a favor and go play in traffic r16.

R16 You are massively over simplifying and buying into daft caricatures.

I know a guy who says his sexuality doesn't define him as a person.

When he's on Grindr he's a faggot cumdump who's only interested in gay men for sex.

When he's out with his het friends, he's a guy who just happens to be gay and tries very hard to show them he's not one of "those" gays.

Basically we're seeing a new generation of men who are closeted, but not in the traditional sense.

Love the football team (more than ever with Klopp), loved Quaddie and Cream, but the gay scene is naff and deserves to be shut.

[quote] [R14] Have you posted on the wrong thread accidentally as I dont think the Muslim factor is a big part of the explanation as to why gay bars are closing especially in Liverpool?

Nah, I was just generally commenting on the messy situation in the UK but pointing out the rise of the conservative Islamic views and leaving out everything else obviously is stupid since they still are a small minority. I was just trying to point out how some Brits seem to blame the Europeans like Polish plumbers for all the country's worries when in fact their problems come largely from their own doing. The country has been taking steps back in openness and the general mood has turned sour in many ways. Obviously the rise of the extremist gang mentality is apparently rather small still but unfortunately these kinds of things tend to alter the general mood, and bullies know it perfectly well which is why they do it.

Gay bars have been closing down everywhere for the past decade or so, and picking up one reason is difficult, although I guess it's mostly due to the gay rights getting better when we don't have to hide in our own bars anymore. But mostly it's probably due the rise of the social media and being connected online 24/7. You don't necessarily need gay bars or bath houses to get laid anymore.

The pushback from the more conservative parties, like the Muslims and the right wingers, might actually mean gay bars making a comeback in some fashion since they provide a safe place, but we're still obviously far from that happening.

"So sad. Seems even worse in UK than in US. I thought you guys drank much more than we did - and even you can’t keep gay bars open,"

R5 It's terrible in LA. This was a topic of conversation at my gay Christmas dinner table last night. All the old gay bars seem to have turned into straight bars and in all of LA there seem to be only 4 or 5 places to go (excluding West Hollywood, where the bars are more like clubs). Blame the apps.

It's a different world.

R23 Why do you think that is happening?

Liverpool should probably just be abandoned tbh

R25 A hit and run inflammatory comment hey?Come on be brave!

Liverpool isn't that far from Manchester, either. That had always had a much bigger scene and you hear tons of Scouse accents there.

Mostly it's the apps and the fact that going out of an evening isn't such a thing with the current generation that it was with their parents. They are more likely to meet up in their local Costa than in the few remaining gay bars left.

Anyplace you are, with any variety of friends, is a gay bar with the presence of aps. The gay boys check the aps no matter where they are.

I go to a cruisy labyrinth type place and the young guys will have their phones out, looking at the apps, in the labyrinth. The mind boggles. There are dicks and holes RIGHT there expressly ready for fucking. And I don't mean my old ones.

Also the young fatties do this - rather than fucking the other fatties. As if they are going to find a better and more convenient option on the app than in the sex club.

I never knew that Liverpool was a gay hub.

Society, generally, has become more accepting. That makes the sanctuary of a gay bar less pressing. Ergo, they will continue to dwindle.

Gay bars hosted a lot of social and cultural activity over the decades, but they existed first and foremost as a refuge from a hostile world. Absent that, if the bar owners cannot come up with a compelling reason to go to their clubs, the places will die.

There will be, at most, one in each major town or city where the gay alcoholics can go and poison themselves communally.

It's because no-one wants to go out in Liverpool. Even people who live there prefer to go to Manchester.

The gay bars I visited in Liverpool a few years ago were awful. And the one sauna they had was as grim as it gets. Not surprised it closed over a year ago.

I'm not sure Liverpool has ever been a hub for the gay community.

I have read that Liverpool has the UK's oldest and longest established Black community going back several generations.

Out of 100 cities around the world, Liverpool was voted number 51 most LGBT friendly in 2017. The poll was taken by the gay community in major hubs around the world. As the location of Britain's first and only official gay quarter, the only LGBT combined arts organisation in the North of England, the UK's most gay friendly university and one of Europe's largest free Gay Pride festivals, life in modern Liverpool allows many more liberties for gays and lesbians than it ever did.

It was approximated that there were around 94,000 LGBT persons living in the city's metropolitan area by mid-2009. That's enough for us to have our own gay city. I had no idea that Liverpool was a fairly progressive city. Perhaps the Vivienne, winner of Drag Race UK, will help put Liverpool on the map as a gay friendly destination?

Liverpool isn't much of a destination. You'll get the odd Beatles fan visiting but that's about it.

It's still not managed to shake its reputation for crime and it being a complete shithole. I know it might not be as bad as it once was, but no-one really visits Liverpool for its sights like they might visit London, Edinburgh, Manchester or Glasgow. In fact, I think I only know one person who's ever gone on holiday to Liverpool specifically and even then it was because there was an exhibition she wanted to see - she wasn't there for the food, the nightlife or any tourist sites.

R32 Nonsense hundreds of thousands of people experience nightlife in Liverpool city centre every week!

R33 Can you recall their names?As far as I know the only sauna has been in the Wirral not Liverpool itself?

R36 The statistics on liverpool tourism do not back up your anecdotes.

Google, darling. Just google.

Homosexuality is mainstream now. Gays don’t feel the need to hang around other gays and thanks to hookup apps, there’s no need to find a place to find someone.

But r41 Could that be something they come to regret if the scene becomes virtually extinct?

R40 Gosh I didn't know that and have never been!Thanks!

Liverpool’s city centre is no different from any provincial city centre in the UK-fucking boring.

With hotties like this on the Liverpool gay scene who could resist?

Not true r43 ,lots of movies and tv shows are filmed in Liverpool because of its unique historical architecture and scenery.

Oh, really, R43? Uhhhh...list them. I bet you can’t because it’s laughably untrue.

R46 What exactly are you asking r43 to list or have you stupidly tagged the wrong reply?

Eww. This means they’ll be coming up to Manchester and we certainly don’t want that. Scousers are the worst. x

R43, "provincial" city center? The entire country is a provincial backwater. Boris 'n Brexit makes that abundantly clear.

This phenomenon is occurring everywhere. As the generations who came out in a gay venue age out, bars will continue to close. The apps are a huge factor, as are city centre rents and the price of alcohol. Availability of home digital entertainment/gaming can make the hassle and expense of a bar unappealing and unnecessary, one can have ones mates round and entertain at home with inexpensive market-purchased drink, and weed.

Many gay bars are also doing themselves no favours in a changing environment, who the the hell wants to listen to a pounding disco soundtrack in a dim room at 3pm?

The entire country r49?Definitely a massive exageration.

R36 I can relate to what you're saying. My impressions of Liverpool when I was there recently was a lot of Beatles fans who come to tour the Beatles historical sites and a lot of good stores, pubs and shops in the City Centre but naturally they are mostly all touristy. The other impression I got is Liverpool seems to have more than it's share of violent crime. Some of the native Liverpudlians I met were nice and friendly with a great sense of humor but some were outright aggressively criminal. So I guess it's a mixture of both. I liked the old classic architecture you see everywhere but I never really felt comfortable in Liverpool, like I did in Manchester and London.

Fair enough r52 if that was your experience but statistically Liverpool is nowhere near the top of uk cities in terms of the crime rate.Many cities in the UK are higher than it percentage wise and that includes Manchester, London and Nottingham.

R50 I just feel there must be a trick being missed somewhere that will enable more places to buck the trend or turn things around?It would be a shame if all places were lost only for future generations to realise they needed them. I don't know but actually meeting new people randomly and not just staying with your own group of friends has a lot to recommend it.

R50, it's probably just a generational thing. People like ripping up and reinventing the wheel. The next generation will probably forsake coffee shops for going out to clubs again.

I visited Liverpewell in 2008. I wanted to see the Liver Buildings, because they never got bombed during the Blitz during the second war. So, I took the train to Lime Street Station. Why, you may ask, did you (a thick Yank) take the fuckin train to Lime Street when it's not the correction station if you want to see the Liver Buildings? I'll tell you why! It's John and Paul's fault. The lyrics to "Maggie May"! "She;'ll nevah walk down Lime Street anymore." What did I know?

It was fine. I went to a local pub, got ratted, wrote postcards, bought a couple of sweet older ladies a round, and got back on the train to Euston. The Virgin Penolino in First Class during the week have free alcoholic bevvies so the trip back is a bit of a blur.

I hope the elected Liverpool mayor Joe Anderson who has rightly made such a positive virtue of Liverpool's gay quarter in the city centre is trying to think of a plan or strategy to preserve and save some of the gay scene and not allow it to totally disappear.

Anyone else think the Citys mayor should try and develop a strategy to shore up the gay quarter in Liverpool?

It seems that if the gay people in Liverpool were steadily seeking out gay-related goods and services in significant number, the venues would exist.

Well yes of course r51 but strategies can be deployed to encourage and nudge people towards using these facilities. The local mayor has made a big thing about how special the Stanley Street pink triangle is so whilst success of an strategy is not guaranteed there is no reason to be passive.

I find this really sad. New generations are going to do what they do - but I have to think that cost is one of the primary factors. Drink prices have skyrocketed the past 10-20 years, most likely due to outrageous rent increases.

Landlords are going to have a wreckoning - either we want a society with retail stores, bars, and restaurants, or everything will be online.

Good point r63. A crunch time is coming. I hadnt realised that alcohol prices were spiralling elsewhere too .I thought that aspect was just a British thing with our governments approach to alcohol taxes.

Google search now confirming that the legendary Masquerade bar in Liverpool is permanently closed.Any hope of a reprieve seems to be gone. ☹😥 I'm so disappointed.

I suppose its possible a new owner who wants to keep the building as a gay bar MIGHT emerge....

Hets won't be happy until they take everything away from us.

A friend visited England to visit his relatives who live there.

He went out clubbing and hit the local gay bars.

He flirted with nine guys before he actually met someone who was gay.

Gosh r66 that ain't good.What city was that? The Masquerade bar in Liverpool was originally owned and run by a couple of gay guys.One become ill with cancer(subsequently died years later) so they decided to sell up.I think the new owners were not as committed and the bar lost most of its character and hence its customers. I think a group of men in a sort of business syndicate bought the Masquerade but only one of them a guy in his twenties was gay and someone who knew the gay scene. They just didn't get how to make a successful gay bar and went all PC with drag Queen nights several times a week.It alienated many.

R65 I believe a new owner will come forward soon, such a mess the two recent owners made of it with their fights over stolen money with eachother. Phil and Jeff will be turning in their graves. Most old Masquerade patrons now go to Kitty's Showbar, formerly The James Monro, which is more of a community based place....but it's the customers who provide the welcoming backdrop to the host's (Kitty) concept. They do have a Masquerade reunion fortnightly there, but the customers are there in their droves anyway.

Once again the students of the city have taken over, whether it be housing or nightlife. But hey, I was young once, I guess.

I've noticed a lot of my peers prefer alternative entertainment now, or just a weekend in Manchester every few weeks.

Hi r68 Its good to see a poster with so much knowledge of the Liverpool gay scene! Many of my old haunts from the 1990s have gone ,the Curzon, Pacos,the escape, Garland's and now the Masquerade. I do hope you are right about a new owner coming forward soon. I wasn't aware there was a feud over stolen money? I do know that the lap dancing club next door to the Masquerade in Cumberland Street is closing and moving to new premises and my fear was whoever's is taking over that building may eye up the Masquerade premises next door too? I hope not. The Lisbon is were I visit most now.Never tried the Navy bar but heard they prefer younger customers rather than middle aged?Don't know if that is true.

I have started a little while ago a thread on gossip from the Liverpool gay scene. I will link to it and bump it!Please have a read and post on it!

Cheers 👍🙂

Here you go r68 please take a look!

Thanks R69 R70 I will check it out :-) Yep, I'm a Lisbon customer, too, I've come full circle and ended up at the beginning of my journey, lol, by going there regularly, because as you say, everywhere else has gone.

You are very welcome r71

I like Heaven and OMG but I seem out of place a bit there and it's hard to have a conversation in them! Gbar is good but pulling off a late night all nighter ain't always easy!😁 We may well have met in The Lisbon then either recently or years ago!

A forfeiting of tenancy notice now posted outside the closed Masquerade bar premises with those with enquiries wishing to show an interest in the premises to ring the landlord. Clearly they were not making enough to pay their rent.That is not surprising to me but what is surprising is that it took so long as it had been so lacking in customers for at least 6 months.

r68 I hope you are right about a new owner wanting to keep it as a gay bar being in the pipeline soon!

I think it's clear that an adderall script and internet access aren't a good mix.

Damn young people need to drink more. Such health obsessives. Live a little!

Yes r76 Wheb I was growing up alcopops and binge drinking were very common as was young people going for a night out of boozing every Friday and Saturday night.Such a turn around in such a shortish period of time.Perhaps the younger generation is rebelling against us and defining themselves in opposition to us?

I think pubs in general including the gay scene need to start selling routinely a good variety of non alcoholic lagers, wines, ciders etc to tempt younger people back in and break the link between alcohol lifestyle and the gay scene. If not they may become history.

R74 Liverpool is in the UK, not the US dear.

Indeed it is r78! A fantastic unique city!

Everyone wants the sex but nobody wants the word "gay."

Everyone wants the sex but nobody wants the word "gay."

Wasn’t Birmingham the gay Mecca of Britain?

That is news to me r82 genuinely

I don't think that is correct at all.

Can you imagine a bar/pub/club in Britain with all the rotten teeth AND all the uncut dicks in one place?!!!

No r74 why can you?Teeth whitening is a very popular thing in Liverpool amongst females and males so no from my experience I cannot imagine that.Liverpool has a culture were grooming,fashion and beauty are very popular. Scouse women for instance are known for their glamorous fashion.

I agree with R85, you won't find any rotten teeth in Liverpool. Everyone jaunts off to Turkey for their cosmetic dentistry for a start to see the Tooth Fairy, who was once based on the Albert Dock. Or was it the Marina? Anyway, she has a huge Scouse following. There are aesthetic clinics on every high street, it's a huge deal to look good in the city. Ignore the media, when it comes to Liverpool. They love to trash the place and it's residents. Maybe R84 is stuck in the 80's with its stereotypes, oui?

When I first heard the phrase Turkey Teeth, I thought wtf, turkeys don't have teeth???!!! Took me a while.....

Lol r88 An unusual turn of phrase for sure! There are lots of phrases like that in Liverpool!

Eileen Lea from The Lisbon.

Whoops....click link for interview :-)

Cheers r90 Eileen has done a brilliant job running that pub for years.I bet shes got some tales she could tell!!😁

Often see Eileen pop into Kitty's too, to catch a bit of the entertainment, support the owners and staff....she's a great woman right in the midst of the community, keeping it strong and stable whilst the newcomers are so hit and miss..

r93 I fully agree!Eileen is a real gem, all the best qualities of the old school.I do wonder who will eventually take over after her?Was the owner before her a gay male?

r93 All the gay bars currently opening under the coronavirus circumstances are supporting and promoting each other .Really pulling together, even welcoming the return of the Masquerade bar under the partial ownership of the nephew of one of the former owners rather than aggressively seeing them as competition. I am really delighted by these developments and hope they all succeed. I've heard the Navy bar is doing well with its reopening.

ncG1vNJzZmivp6x7pa3TmqOorZ6csm%2BvzqZmraCimq6le5FuaWpwaGl%2FbrjIr5yrqJ%2BkuW6%2FxJ6krGWkpHqjsYyipWackaO0pr6MqJ1mmpWYvK61zaBkpZ2jqHqordhmmKecXaGytL%2BMqJ1mmV2dwqN5xaipZqyYmnqordhmmqilnaq7qsDYZpisZWJitKLFjJuYq6tdqLW2wIywoK2gmaN6onnMqKWtoF0%3D